Live Calls with Section 8 Applicants -- Voucher Amounts and Confessions — Theirs and Mine!

I spend A LOT OF TIME talking with Section 8 applicants to figure out if their voucher will cover the amount of rent I need to get. I totally understand why property managers avoid Section 8 applicants. It’s too much time and too much expertise required to know the right questions to ask.

Section 8 voucher holders will be so happy to have a voucher and they come out of their intake meetings completely confused as to the amount of rent their voucher will really cover.

I made the following video hoping to clear it all up.

I was disheartened to read a comment from this video that said it was still confusing. I think if the person had read the blog explaining all the concepts, it would have been more clear.

See my blog How to Interview a Section 8 Voucher Holder — Does Their Voucher Cover the Rent?

My solution to the scathing comment was to allow viewers to see me do this live, mostly unedited. Here it is!

It was quite the experience to see myself do this. I wiggle a LOT! I’m very distracted by my hair and by the people outside with chainsaws. I spend A LOT of time talking with people.

I see that the more time I invest speaking with someone, the more I want them to work out for the house. I have to walk away from the conversation to go over the Red Flags and realize they are absolutely not a fit for me. I know this. But on the spot, I don’t see it fast enough. I like people too much and I don’t want to hurt their feelings so it’s not my nature to end the calls fast enough for what is practical. But I’m okay with that. I do feel it’s my missionary work in life to help people with housing. If the only way I can help is to get them to understand their voucher amount, then that’s something. I can’t rent to everyone though. I also have an obligation to the owners of the house.

What Caller #1 Was Really Saying

I liked this woman! This one was hard for me on a personal level because I have to deny her.

I am grateful I was able to explain her voucher amount to her. though at least. She said she had a $1,200 voucher from Plymouth Housing and two “little girls.” Two girls means one bedroom. She possibly only has a two-bedroom voucher. From my experience, that means her voucher amount would be $1,000. Plymouth Housing never has given people vouchers for enough rent. They are saying she has a $1,200 voucher, $200 of which will be minused off if the landlord doesn’t pay for gas, electric, and water. But maybe Plymouth Housing has finally figured out that their applicants are ending up in slum houses because their voucher amounts are too low and maybe they have started to notice rents have increased so Plymouth Housing has increased their voucher amounts. When I emailed the caseworker with details, I received an email back saying that even though the tenant has to pay all her own gas, electric, and water and has to supply her own refrigerator and stove, yes, her rent really could be $1,200.

What was interesting too about this one is that the applicant has to pay a significant amount of that voucher herself. She has a good job. I never did figure out from where though. Having to pay a high amount of the rent herself could be good or bad. Bad if she has a poor rental history. Good in that she appreciates the voucher and she appreciates her precious income so she takes care of the place.

With her income being so much, Section 8 has leeway on their 30% rule. 30% of a tenant’s income has to be used toward paying the rent. When a tenant has a good job and they find a house where the rent is more than their voucher allows, the caseworker can look at their income and decide if they will go up to 40% of the tenant’s income so the tenant can get the better house. That could be what happened here. Maybe they know she’s being evicted as well so they are allowing her to take a place for more than they normally would. I don’t really know if they know that though.

You can tell listening to the call that she was very interested in what I would find on my “free” search about her eviction history. She lied at first that it was all “settled.” But at another point, she called me and she was sobbing on the phone. This isn’t recorded. I could barely hear or understand her. She was telling me though that she was being evicted and she really needed a home.

She called me again too, which also wasn’t recorded, and told me she is being evicted, “to be honest,” because she wasn’t able to make the missing rental payments that the court set her up to make.

I really have a problem with people who used the pandemic for “free rent” and they also had a job. It’s so bizarre that the program was set up to give rental assistance to people who did not need rental assistance. Apparently, this applicant was able to get the COVID Emergency Rental Assistance (CERA) funds. The CERA funds only paid for two months of rent and she thought they were paying for five months of rent. Maybe her landlord just pocketed the other three months? Maybe not. But the tenant didn’t pay her rent when she was told it was due again. She ended up in court and she was given a payment plan. Then she couldn’t make the payments. By going MONTHS with the CERA money paying rent, I’ve noticed the tenants all changed their lifestyle. They didn’t save the money. They spent it! Once it’s time for them to pay rent again, so many of them can’t do it. I see this repeatedly from both ends; my own tenants and several applicants.

I felt horrible to hear her cry and she is so desperate to find a place. I’m really nice on the phone so she thinks she has a chance. Last night, speaking with her again, I told her I don’t even have her application and there’s no guarantee she will get the house. I’m not the only one making the decision. That’s what I told her. I really do typically make the final decision, but when I’m on the fence I’ll discuss the situation with the owner of the house.

This applicant still hasn’t applied. I think she’s looking for a less savvy landlord. She may be banking on the fact that her name hasn’t shown up yet in the court filings too. Or I missed it? Or I’m looking in the wrong court? I don't know. But I can’t rent to someone who used the CERA money and then didn’t pay rent. She owes way too much on her voucher to risk renting to someone who has a history of not paying rent.

I completely DREAD telling her she didn’t qualify. But I can’t ethically save someone who has a poor rental history. If Section 8 said she can afford $900 a month (or her HUD subsidized unit determined what she can afford), then that means she misappropriated her funds. She did this to herself. I still don’t enjoy telling people that.

What Caller #2 Was Really Saying

On this call, I was completely focused on her voucher amount. I’m also concerned I have that particular house listed at too high of a rental price. So I was very eager to qualify her. It’s like eating cookies. They’re so good at the time but I know I’ll be regretting that I ate them once I get to the gym and see myself in my leggings in the mirror. It’s OBVIOUS cookies make you fat. I know eating sugar makes you just want more sugar. But I do it anyway!

Her voucher amount was crystal clear. She already has been using Section 8. The rental amount at her current residence is exactly the amount I’m asking for my Promenade house. Not only that, but at her current residence, she is paying all her own gas, electric, and water. So simple. I was so excited. I wanted to gobble that cookie right up! Sign the lease. Let’s go! Let me put this behind me. No more phone calls. Let’s be done. So I suddenly became super deaf.

She immediately confessed that her house is full of cockroaches and mice. AND I BECAME DEAF? Seriously! This one is embarrassing. That’s like skipping the cookie and just eating the stick of butter that was used to make the cookie. I even set up a time for her to see our house. I almost allowed a woman with cockroach eggs on her shoes to come to our house. BAD! VERY BAD OF ME! But there was some divine intervention in our favor. She was a no show. Hallelujah!

When people have cockroaches, we have NEVER, EVER, EVER been to their house and wondered how on earth that happened. It’s obvious. They are dirty. They have crumbs everywhere. It’s like they have a million pets they feed. The crumbs are all over the couch, under it, on their bed. They clearly don’t eat at a table.

Not to say someone can’t get cockroaches and mice who is clean. It happens. I grew up on a farm. We had mice sometimes. I know my mom had to be super vigilant with crumbs and cleaning until she got them all. But they never overtook us.

What was funny about this one is that her property manager quit taking her calls. Or never took her calls? I’m guessing they figured out quickly that she was dirty and they decided to ignore her until she moves. These days with the slow courts it’s a lot easier than evicting her. They were getting her Section 8 rent each month too. If they evicted her, they could be required to pay it back from the date of the 30-day notice. By the time she made it to court, that could have been 6 months of rent they would be required to return. Just ignoring her was probably the fastest way to be rid of her.

I also found it pretty hilarious that they got a Ring camera for their Southfield office. Southfield isn’t Detroit. The crime isn’t so bad there. I do wonder if the Ring camera was because they didn’t want her walking in with her cockroaches that could fall out of her boots or pants or something and infest their office. Or maybe she’s just nuts and they weren’t going to let her in? I don’t know.

In Conclusion

I probably shouldn’t let you all see me doing these live! I sound like I’m considering these people. I DID consider these people. Then I woke up and didn’t eat those cookies!

Keeping it real! Let me know what you think. Be nice.

Cash for Keys or Go to Court or BOTH? How This Tenant Lived Free for Months!

Offering a tenant Cash for Keys is supposed to be a way to avoid going to court. The owner of the house wins by not having a nonpaying tenant in their house months on end while waiting on the courts who are now slower than ever. The tenant wins because they now have cash to put down on their next rental. It should work! It usually does work. But it did not work for us on this one!

I sent out letters targeting “tired landlords” in Detroit and I offered to buy their houses. The owner of this triplex said he had one vacancy, one paying tenant, and another tenant not paying and the house needs a whole new roof job and some windows. He sold us the property for a good price in May.

We were able to keep the paying tenant. I raised her rent from $400/month to $600/month. We cleaned out the vacant unit and she moved over to it. We then cleaned out her unit and I was able to find someone with Section 8 for $700/month rent.

Here is the video of the upper front unit that our $600/month person moved into:

As we cleaned out both upper units, replaced the roof and did a lot of other repairs, I marketed the house for sale and found a buyer from Peru. Now we just need it to appraise for the $150k. Detroit appraisals are all over the place. Appraisers use distressed properties as comparables because they cannot get into all the other sold properties to see if they really compare. Photos online are pretty limited. I’m feeling like it’s 50/50 if it will appraise at $150,000. But we can’t even get the appraisal until that lower unit is vacant and renovated.

Upon the purchase date of the property, I sent out my New Owner Package. This is the letter I wrote to the nonpaying tenant in the large 3-bedroom unit on the first floor.

I found this fun tool online that gives average and median rental prices. The first five searches are free. But we bought so many houses like this that I had to pay for the site so I could send this out in my new owner package to back up what I feel the rent should be.

In the New Owner Package I also sent a rental application and a 30-day notice. The 30-day notice is the eviction notice that says I’m not asking for money, I just am not renewing her lease. I never had a lease to renew anyway.

The previous owner had struggles with his property manager. He wasn’t even able to get security deposit money back from them to give to me. I had to put the security deposit funds in the closing so we had the money. Security deposits belong to the tenants and they are supposed to be kept in a separate bank account for when the tenant moves. We have done a cash for keys on other properties and if they left the house in perfect condition, we have given them back their security deposits too.

My Best Laid Plans Didn’t Work!

The tenant, Niesha, contacted me I thought to discuss her new rental amount or plans to move. Nope! It was to complain about our roofers using cuss words.

When I pointed out to her that her rent is due or is she moving, she was flabbergasted that I was asking for rent. She said, “There ain’t no way this here place is worth no $900 a month. I ain’t paying that never!”

I asked her if she planned on moving then and taking us up on our $1,000 Cash for Keys.

“No. I don’t have to move. CERA is paying my rent now due to the pandemic.”

The State of Michigan had a fund that supposedly dried up at the end of June called COVID Emergency Rental Assistance. The tenant and the owner have to apply together online. It can take over a year for the rental assistance to come unless there is an eviction pending. I explained to Niesha that I did not apply for that so if there is any CERA money that is coming, it is on her to find it and give it to me. She owes me rent, not the State of Michigan. If her old property manager received the CERA funds, it’s the responsibility of the tenant to get my portion of it to me.

She said I’ll have to evict her then and good luck to me because she knows damn well that rent is paid by the State of Michigan these days and not her, the tenant.

I had to wait until that 30 days was up. I waited and sent the 30-day notice to my lawyer. It takes a month once the 30-day notice date is up to even get a court date. The courts are just really backlogged now since the pandemic apparently. At least in Detroit they are.

July Court Case #1

Every Landlord Tenant court case appears before the judge only to be automatically adjourned so the tenant can be assigned a “free” lawyer. 36th District Court in Detroit hired a bunch of lawyers to represent tenants who are living for free off their landlords who are still paying for taxes and insurance and upkeep. But the landlords absolutely do not get a free lawyer. That wouldn’t be equitable.

August Court Case #2

These cases are all on Zoom and I let my attorney handle them. There is no need for me to be there. If anything comes up, he will call. And call he did! He let me know that the tenant had applied for CERA money and her attorney had the check sitting right there on her desk. The attorney couldn’t say how much the check was for, but there it is on her desk so how about we take that money and keep this woman housed?

At first my reaction was NO WAY! Niesha already refused to pay $900 rent which is already below market. She also is in our house so it’s nearly impossible to renovate a house when someone is in there living in it. Just look at my video of how filthy she lives. How could I sell a house with that kind of tenant in it? I cannot. I will not.

Then I started wondering how much money it is. Just the months I had her as a tenant is more than the $1,000 Cash for Keys I offered her. I could let Niesha have use of that rental money, as it was intended to help tenants, and pay myself back for the missing months of rent and offer her a better Cash for Keys price to move and have money for her next rental. Win-Win, right? So I said we’d take the money.

September — No CERA Money Arrives

In September that wonderful CERA money didn’t arrive. Meanwhile, my buyer was about to lose his locked-in rate for his mortgage as the mortgage interest rates were shooting up.

My attorney meanwhile was trying to get the check off the “free” lawyer’s desk. She wouldn’t answer his phone calls or his emails. My attorney let me know that any other of those “free” lawyers would have had it to us in a week, no issue. They have that ability. But this particular “free” lawyer was probably busy getting ready for her new job. She just won unopposed as a judge in Lansing.

My lawyer called for another court case.

October Court Case

This time I attended the Zoom hearing. Niesha’s free lawyer seemed very confused. What check? What client? What are we discussing here? She and my attorney went into a separate Zoom room and came back to me with this.

The “free” attorney knows nothing about a check on her desk. But because I said I would take that CERA money, that means I cannot call a bailiff in to evict the tenant. If I want to be rid of her, I will have to start the case all over again. Send her a 30-day notice. Wait another 30 days to get a court case. Then that case adjourns. Then there’s another court case after another month in which I say I’m not accepting the new State rental relief funds to keep her. Then I wait another month for the bailiff to remove her. By then we’re pushing a full year of this woman living for free in our property. Who knows how many months she lived for free before we bought the house?

So what did they decide? How about I just give the tenant that $1,000 I said back in May? Then she has to move out by October 14th. Give her half a month. She needs time, you know. I agreed. What else could I do?

But Niesha’s “free” attorney wouldn’t sign it. She went missing again. She was probably out shopping for judge robes. And my attorney had a box checked on there stating if Niesha wouldn’t move by the 14th that I actually could get a bailiff. My attorney knows the “free” attorney’s supervisor. So the supervisor signed it. It may not have been signed if the “free” attorney hadn’t done such a terrible job.

That’s why I ended up paying a deadbeat tenant $1,000 to move after living for free off us for the last five months.

The Moral of the Story

Buy houses in Detroit with a vetted tenant who isn’t using the government money to pay rent. I believe Niesha honestly thought she could live for free from now on. She even had a job and she wasn’t paying rent.

We sell houses to you AFTER we’ve been through this mess. When my Peru buyer gets this house, it will be with three paying tenants, two of whom are receiving rent from Section 8. That means the house will have had two Section 8 inspections as well. He will have a vetted property manager in place too. It’s a true turnkey when you buy a property from us.

Check out what I have for sale now:

Would you buy a $1,000 house in Detroit? Detroit Land Bank EXPOSED -- Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap

Answer: Do not buy a $1,000 house in Detroit. Sounds too good to be true? Because it is!!! This house was purchased from the Detroit Land Bank by a tenant of ours a few years ago. I've been waiting to post the video because I don't want to expose her for making this poor choice -- that's what I think! But I have been told in no uncertain terms that it's all a matter of perspective.

A Detroit resident who is struggling to raise her children with an income slightly above minimum wage saw this as her opportunity to never have a landlord again. This could be 100% hers for only $1,000. She understood that it needs some work.

We bought a house she was renting. My husband and I buy houses in Detroit, we renovate them, we place a tenant, then we sell the property to investors.

This tenant in our latest acquisition told us she would move out shortly. She just needed to get this $1000 house to pass the Detroit Land Bank inspection rules so she could move in. After a few months of waiting on her to move out of our house, I asked her if we could see the $1,000 house so we can get a better idea of how long it would take her to move out of our house. She kindly let us.

When we saw just how much work it would need, I thought I'd be helpful and let her know that for that kind of money she could buy a fully renovated house with a mortgage. She did not appreciate my advice AT ALL! Her goal was to not owe anyone anything for where she lived. Having a mortgage would be the opposite. She was actually pretty insulted by my unsolicited advice. I felt horrible. I crossed a line thinking I was being kind and helpful. I should have minded my own business.

We couldn't renovate our new renovation-project house with her in it, so we had to sell it. I let the buyer know the situation. It's been around two years ago now and we do not know how this $1,000 house turned out. Pat and I can't remember the address either, unfortunately. We'd love to drive by and see if she ever finished this.

The Detroit Land Bank has possession of 20% of Detroit properties. The good houses seem to be sold to friends and family of the DLB. They also knock down several distressed properties and sell the lots. Then sometimes they will auction off a bad property. The bidding gets ridiculously too high. But the lowest of low that they do is sell a house like this to a Detroit resident. It should be a knockdown. But it costs around $10k to knock a house down. Selling it for $1,000 and collecting years of taxes is better for the city apparently.

Our tenant who bought this house was always under DLB inspection deadlines. You can see where the walls are open to expose her electric wiring. She had even bought a new toilet and fixtures for the bathroom only to have them stolen by her handyman. Her first electrician robbed her blind too. She seemed to be a target in so many ways. And she is the nicest woman too. She works in adult care facilities and risked her job to expose their sexual predator hiring practices. She does yearly backpack drives so the kids of Detroit have backpacks every fall. That's what she was doing the day I filmed this two years ago.

I hope things have turned out for her. I do not know. I'm afraid to ask after I really insulted her with my suggestions.

If you want to buy a fully renovated & rented house from us, check out what I have for sale now:

Will Local 4 News Help Me Hank Consider Helping Us Good Landlords?

Where is our local hero Help me Hank when good landlords cannot get bad tenants out of their houses? The landlord who sold this house had to sell it to us at a deep discount because he knew we would have to remove this horrible tenant who was letting her dogs destroy the house. We finally got the tenant out only to learn her dogs were left there eating through the bedroom door and leaving feces in the basement. It took us a good four months before she and her dogs were gone so we could renovate the house.

I have never heard of a city inspector removing a tenant from a home that was uninhabitable because the landlord couldn't get her out fast enough. We have dealt with bad tenants for MONTHS waiting on the courts to remove them. It is currently a good 3-4 month process to remove a tenant.

I now have a well-vetted Section 8 tenant moving in. I checked out her current rental to be sure she doesn't live anything like the prior occupant of this house. The Section 8 rent is really good! Check out my website for more details. I have other houses for sale as well.

Hey, Hank! You ought to make an episode of how much landlords are hurting these days by the courts. The city inspections don't bother us. They seem fair enough. They're only a problem for slumlords. There are good landlords out here! But there sure are bad tenants getting away with living in our properties for free as we pay insurance, taxes, and upkeep. I've been waiting on CERA funds to help me with one of my tenants now since July of 2021. How about a Help Me Hank about the backlog at Wayne Metro Housing? That's hurting a lot of us. Or the backlog at Detroit Housing Commission. I've been months without rental payments because they lost one of their extremely low-paid caseworkers. Now I cannot rent to anyone with a Detroit Housing voucher because I know they are a mess there. Those voucher holders are really hurting too.

5 Things I Would Never Do If I Were a Renter -- Not What You Think!

I'm amazed at how many people do these things and they think I will be happy to rent to them or happy to renew the lease. Tenants are usually focused on no evictions or felonies, but I will take a felon over most of these things, depending on the situation.

1. Bad Manners When Viewing the Home

1. When an applicant comes to see the house, if they have their phone against their ear the whole time I'm showing them the house, they will never ever EVER get to rent that house from me or from any other landlord I've ever met. Also if they walk through and point out things that we haven't finished yet such as a missing plate cover or something they deem Section 8 will not pass, pointing that out to us is OBNOXIOUS, not helpful. We are the ones in construction. And we have been through way more Section 8 inspections than they ever will. We won't rent to people who point out what is wrong with the house on the first visit.

2. Incomplete Rental Application

2. Leaving an application incomplete. When landlords do not like an applicant for any reason at all and the landlord really doesn't want to get into it with the applicant about why they won't accept that person, the go-to denial reason is "incomplete application." The real reason is probably one of these five things.

3. Cause Public Record

3. I wouldn't do anything that would cause a negative public record. Tenants are so surprised that I won't take them if they have a track record at the courthouse that didn't end in an actual eviction. I look at how many times a person has had a landlord take their time and money to file against them in court. That's enough for me. If they were so annoying that the landlord had to use a judge to intervene, I will not rent to that person. I certainly won't take someone with an eviction either. I also Google the person's name. I've found all kinds of history on people just from a simple Google search. I also go to their Facebook page. Even if they are private, I can see their profile photos.

3.5. Call The City on a Landlord

3.5. I understand that there are slumlords out there and the only way a tenant can have things fixed in the house is if they call the city on their landlord. But if I find out a tenant has called the city on the landlord, I won't rent to them. I've had over-the-top tenants call the city on us when we were in the middle of replacing their kitchen that we didn't even have to do. The tenant thought it would get us finished faster. It got her immediately evicted.

4. Be Difficult with Repairs

4. I would never be difficult about repairs. It is very difficult to find a repairman in the first place and to schedule with that repairman or contractor. Once we've achieved that, the house needs to be open to let that person make the repair. If a renter doesn't answer the door or isn't home as promised, we just don't renew the lease.

5. Forget to do the Inventory Checklist

5. I would be sure to do a thorough move-in inventory checklist with photographs of anything that I could be blamed for at the move out. Any ding at all, I would note and ask the property manager or landlord to sign off on it. If it ends up in court, the judge always asks for the inventory checklist. If I didn't have it, then I would have to pay for all the repairs.

But I absolutely would interview the landlord!

Just as landlords guard against bad tenants, tenants should guard against bad landlords and property managers. Watch this video with plenty of ideas of how to interview a landlord before renting from them.

Are There Still Bad Neighborhoods Left in Detroit? My Theory and Post Eviction House Tour

Would you buy a house on this street? What if this street is about to become just like the street behind it? What if you knew that every rotten-looking house on this street will either be renovated or torn down? Is it still a good street? I think so because over the last few years we have witnessed "bad neighborhoods" become good neighborhoods. NOW is the time to invest in a Detroit rental property. The houses on the more stabilized streets are costing so much more money now, it only makes sense that the houses on the dicey streets are about to appreciate as well. We bought this house a few months ago.

We knew we had occupants who hadn't paid a dime of rent to their senior citizen out-of-state owner for over two years. The pandemic really hurt the previous owner. She was left with no choice but to sell it before she completely lost it. With no rent for two years, how are the mom and pop landlords supposed to pay the taxes and insurance and upkeep? They cannot!

I'm always startled at how people live. This house appears to have been hit by the Detroit flood of 2021. The people just moved out and they were living with sewage in their basements, inhaling it through their whole house. The bathtub was so disgusting, I'm not sure how anyone could have bathed in there. It took us 4 months to get to the point of a bailiff removing them. They removed themselves before the bailiff got there though and they kindly left us some food products.

When people leave perfectly good unexpired food, it makes me wonder what is going on in their heads. They lived for over two years rent free so maybe they have money to blow. Even with money to blow, I would NEVER leave good food. It all just screams irresponsible to me. I thank my grandma for pounding into me, "Monique! Waste not, want not!"

We are considering renovating this one and listing it publically for sale for a homeowner. We can make more money that way. If we sell it with a tenant paying $1,100/month rent, I can sell it for $76,500 to an investor. But I believe I can get $100,000-$115,000 based on comparables in the area if I sell it to a homeowner.

If you want to buy an investment property, I have some inventory left. You can join my exclusive buyers list, email me, or look on my website to see what we have now: www.GreatDayPropertyManagement.com/for-sale.

Exclusive Buyer List: www.GreatDayPropertyManagement.com/exclusive-buyer-list We only sell a couple of houses a month. This is step 1 to join our waiting list.

Before and After Tour and The Story Behind What it Took ACTUALLY!

There is a story with this house. A buyer beware story! This one was not a good money maker for us. The investor who bought it will do great on her investment though. This is one of those situations start to finish that takes a local touch.

We bought this house almost a year ago. Just buying it from the original owner was hours of negotiation and meeting with her in person to sign a purchase agreement. There was no way she was doing any transactions on that there internet! She was a character! We even got to know her adult daughter who had to approve of the transaction and verify to her mother that we are legitimate people not out there scamming anyone. Sadly, the daughter let us know that her mother passed away recently.

Along with the purchase of the house came a tenant paying well below market at $600/month. She was a sweet lady. A few months into it she was bedridden with a difficult pregnancy. She still paid rent. Then she had the baby, but slowly stopped paying rent. We don't think she ever left her bed. I had the worst time evicting her. I felt AWFUL! My feelings got in the way of doing this all a lot faster. We tried to offer her cash for keys but I think she was just too depressed to handle the thought of moving. We had to use the courts to get her out. When she left, she left it a typical mess for Detroit. Nothing unusual. The rice in the sink is a revenge move though, which I don't understand why. She had a good 5 months of free living off us.

The new tenant has an excellent Section 8 voucher for almost double what the previous tenant was paying. The new owner bought the house for $75,000 with around a 12% ROI. It's looking like the voucher will pay 100% of the rent, but Section 8 won't tell you that until after the tenant is moved in. The new family couldn't be nicer. During the application and move process, I even got to know the mother of the new tenant when the tenant ended up hospitalized. When we met in person on move-in day we were all hugging and smiling ear to ear. That's the fun part of my job. It's very fulfilling!

Seeing is Believing! I filmed our investor tour yesterday and now she wants everything!

Our Detroit Investor Tour was yesterday. The buyer is getting under contract today for most of these properties that are at 11% to 12% ROI.

We will give our serious buyers an inside tour of Before Renovation and After Renovation houses that we are working on.

We also swing through downtown Detroit to show them how vibrant it is now and nothing like what they see in the news.

We always recommend that our investors stay downtown Detroit so they can feel the good energy of the city these days and maybe walk on the Detroit River Walk, go to the Detroit Institute of Arts, catch a show in the Entertainment District, catch a game at Hockeytown or Comerica Park, go out to eat at one of our many great restaurants and SO MUCH MORE!

There were a few houses we did not show this investor that are still for sale. If you are interested, please contact me and I'll put you on my exclusive buyer list. Most of these houses already have renters lined up pre-renovation. Renters have a waiting list too. There is far more demand than supply, especially when the properties are as nice as ours.

www.GreatDayPropertyManagement.com/moniques-blog Exclusive Buyer List: www.GreatDayPropertyManagement.com/exclusive-buyer-list

Detroit Doggie Door video of the Before House at 19988 Hickory

12041 E State Fair, Detroit, MI 48205

3 Beds/1 full bath

Frame

Basement

Square feet:  912

Year built:  1946

Sale Price:  $70,000

Rental Income:  $10,800

2022 taxes (inclu. winter tax estimated at $200):  $1,101

Property Management:  $1,200

Est. Insurance:  $700

Cash Flow:  $7,799

ROI:  11%

We bought this house with a very long-term tenant who has been paying rent.  I gradually increased it up to $900 (from $550), to which he has complied without hassle.  The property has newer windows, brand new hot water heater, the furnace is in good shape, the roof is about 10 years old.  In the next 3 weeks it is scheduled to get new flooring, new interior paint, and new kitchen cabinets.  We will be doing whatever repairs need to be done there as well while we're in it. 

12049 E. State Fair, Detroit, MI 48205

3 Beds/1 full bath

Frame

Basement

Square feet:  900

Year built:  1946

Sale Price:  $70,000

Rental Income:  $10,800

2022 taxes (inclu. winter tax estimated at $200):  $1,084

Property Management:  $1,200

Est. Insurance:  $700

Cash Flow:  $7,799

ROI:  11%

Same info as 12041 E. State Fair, except the roof is a little newer. The houses were purchased from the same seller and both are in the same shape.  Neither tenants have Section 8 but they are long-term payers.  

5609 Marlborough, Detroit, MI 48224

3 Beds/1 full bath

Brick

Basement

Garage

Square feet:  1,294

Year built:  1948

Sale Price:  $76,500

Rental Income:  $13,200 

2022 taxes (inclu winter tax est. at $200) :  $1,147

Property Management:  $1,200

Est. Insurance:  $700

Cash Flow:  $10,153

ROI:  13.3%

We are currently evicting the occupants that came with the property when we purchased it.  The property will be renovated we believe by the end of August.  I'm stating this price based on finding a tenant for $1,100/mo rent.  I could get $1,200 and the sale price will be $81,000.  If we can get $1,300 the sale price will be $87,000.  

13425 Promenade, Detroit, MI 48213

UNDER CONSTRUCTION!

3 beds, 1 full bath

Brick

Basement

Garage

Square feet:  840

Year built:  1949

Sale Price:  $76,500

Rental Income:  $13,200 

2022 taxes  (inclu. est. $200 for winter tax):  $919

Property Management:  $1,200

Est. Insurance:  $700

Cash Flow:  $10,381

ROI:  13.6%

I don't have a good front photo yet of this one.  The image is a similar-looking house to 13425 Promenade.  We are currently evicting the occupants that came with the property when we purchased it.  We expect to have the tenants out by the end of July and have the house ready to sell by the end of August.  I'm stating this price based on finding a tenant for $1,100/mo rent.  I could get $1,200 and the sale price will be $81,000.  If we can get $1,300 the sale price will be $87,000.  I'm targeting Section 8.  

12240 Stout, Detroit, Mi 48228

3 Beds/1 full bath

Brick

Basement

Garage

Square feet: 737

Year built:  1948

Sale Price:  $70,000

Rental Income:  $12,000

2022 taxes (includes est. $200 for winter tax):  $1,664 

Property Management:  $1,200

Est. Insurance:  $700

Cash Flow:  $8,436

ROI:  12.1%

Most newly renovated and tenant ready.  Targeting Section 8 with this one for $1,000/month. 

12681 Santa Rosa, Detroit, MI 48238 

3 family home1 bedroom

upper front for $600/month

1 bedroom upper back or $700/month

3 bedroom lower unit for $1,100/month

Brick

Basement -- shared but has separate laundry areas, separated hot water heaters and furnaces.  Two furnaces are in the attic.

Square feet: 2,600

Year built:  1927

Sale Price:  $150,000

Rental Income:  $28,800

2022 taxes (includes est. $200 for winter tax):  $1,590

Property Management:  $3,000

Est. Insurance:  $900

Cash Flow:  $23,310

ROI:  15.5%

The front upper unit is completed and now rented with a video, attached.  The tenant is on a month-to-month lease.  You could raise it up to $700 possibly if it's somewhat gradual.  We are currently renovating the back 1 bedroom unit.  I'm advertising it for $700/month.  The lower unit we are evicting.  We expect to have the lower unit completed by the end of August.  Tenants pay gas and electric.  Owner pays water.  Water averages $65/mo/3-bedroom and $50/mo for the 1-bedrooms.

Winter taxes come in between $100-$200.  We're seeing insurance come in between $550-$700/year if you use our carrier, NREIG.  

If interested in any of these properties, I can draw up a purchase agreement pending an inspection (back out clause if you don't approve of the completed project -- which has never happened to us yet!).  This is a backlog of available properties for us resulting from a big mailer I did to tired landlords. 

Once we've sold these properties, we are starting to buy properties that we can sell on the MLS to retail homeowners, unless the origination prices of these houses drop with the market.  In that case, we may continue buying this type of house and selling them to investors.  Right now though the profit margin isn't enough to continue selling to investors.  

Detroit State of Evictions and Tour of This Destroyed House -- Courts Should Be ASHAMED!

Here is the truth about what is happening with evictions now that the courts are open AND all the free rent money from the state has finally ended. See what the occupants of this house at 19988 Hickory did to it!

When we buy an occupied house to renovate and sell to investors, I always send a 30-day notice of eviction. I never know how good the tenant is in that house. So I can't move them out during the first 30 days that they have to move themselves out or face eviction. Once that's up, my attorney can file it in court. This last one took 45 days AFTER the 30 days were up before we even got a court case.

Court Case #1 is always adjourned...ALWAYS...because 36th District Court in Detroit hired several "free" lawyers to help ONLY THE TENANTS. The attorneys are not available for the landlords who have had deadbeat tenants sometimes for the last two years who haven't paid rent.

Once the case is adjourned it takes a good 20-30 more days before the real court date. There is a new judge finally who isn't giving the tenants breaks anymore once they've made it to him. He only gives them 10 more days to pack up and move.

If the tenant does not move in that last 10-day window, the landlord can then get the bailiff to come and remove the tenant.

We have been offering occupants (tenants and squatters) Cash for Keys up to $1,000. Most people would prefer to wait out the four months of free lodging though. We finally had our first taker who saw the value of not having an eviction on her record and she has said she will move in the 30 days I gave her to get her Cash for Keys. We'll see how THAT goes! Will she really leave? Nothing surprises us anymore.

This house in this video was finally vacated after two months of back and forth with the tenant. She moved at one point and we went in and she, of course, took the furnace and hot water heater. We checked out the electrical and gathered our plan to come back. We came back with the crew to start working on it only to find that the tenant had moved out but she had moved in her pit bulls. That took another few weeks.

We actually did not go to court on this one. But looking at this house, this isn't all that abnormal to find in Detroit. This is how a lot, if not most, tenants leave their houses. Yet the judges are giving them opportunity upon opportunity and the last two years of living free and doing this to our properties. The judges think they are helping the tenants. Yes, they have helped some tenants, but this is more the reality of who they're helping.

I'd like to show a judge the photo of the dead dog in the garage with the chain around its carcass. That is the kind of person the judges are granting free living to. I think the dogs deserve better care than the intentionally cruel tenants do. The dogs should NOT have to make their own doggie doors!

Multi Family Investment Opportunity - 3-family flat for $150,000

$150,000 for this beautiful 1927 well-built 3-family home. I already have two buyers who want this property. This is a tour of the one unit we have renovated so far. The two units upstairs are one bedroom each. This is the front unit that has the living room with a faux fireplace and front porch. We are now renovating the back unit that is smaller but also has one bedroom.

Downstairs the tenant who came with the property is refusing to pay market rent so we are hoping she accepts our cash for keys ($1,000), but we may have to evict her. She had 30 days to take us up on the cash for keys offer, but she said that was too much of a rush for her. She'd take the eviction option instead. My next video will be about how evictions are going these days in Detroit. Basically, it takes a good 3 months.

The lower unit is a very large 3-bedroom unit. I'm not 100% sure yet what rent I will get for the downstairs but I'll be going for someone with a Section 8 voucher (see why in my Section 8 playlist).

I'm hoping for $900-$1,100 maybe. The upstairs units are for $600 on one side and $700 on the other side. The property taxes are around $1,500 in 2022. The insurance is around $900/year. We are working on getting the water to bill separately. That's that is a MAYBE at this point. Stay tuned for future videos of this property as we get each unit rent ready.

If you are interested in being on my Exclusive Buyer's List, just email me at Monique@greatdaypm.com and we can have a conversation. We're starting to buy and hold the properties for ourselves or buy and renovate them to sell them on the MLS to homeowners. There's more profit these days in selling retail. So if you want an investment property, TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE before we stop doing this gig!

Properties:

East Side of Detroit: https://bit.ly/EastSidecoall

West Side of Detroit: https://bit.ly/WestSidecoall

Detroit Renovation Project Start to Finish: https://bit.ly/DetroitRenovationProject

What We Do BEFORE You Buy a House from Us...Not YOUR Problem

We bought this house to renovate, rent, and sell to an investor. This is an example of why an investor should start their investment once these issues are over.

Usually, people (NOT US!!!) sell houses with tenants in them because the tenants and/or the house is nothing but trouble. We will buy those houses (for the right price) because we know exactly how to handle that trouble.

With this house we knew we had some renovation work to do to get it up to our standards, but we were hoping the tenant would work out and continue to pay rent. Part way through the renovation (safety repairs), our inherited tenant quit paying rent.

We had to take it to court all the way to the point before we could get a bailiff to remove her.

It's amazing we passed the city certification looking at the house now. But we did. We stopped the rest of the renovations though because we could tell the tenant did not keep up the property and she wasn't worth keeping. I believe the only upgrade we made was to the kitchen floor, which she immediately got filthy. You can't even see it in this video.

In order to be compliant with the city, landlords have three steps that need to be met.

1. Register the house. It's simple. It tells the city where to mail tickets if your tenant leaves the trash can out too long, or the alley gets overgrown, or the grass isn't cut. If you don't register the house, the first ticket is $250. If you STILL don't register it they can ticket you again. The tickets increase in price until the house maxes out at $10,000 in tickets.

Go here: https://aca-prod.accela.com/DETROIT/Default.aspx

Google: BSEED Application for Rental Housing.

2. Get the house city inspected and passed. This is another $250 ticket that keeps getting ticketed if there is no recorded Passed city inspection. I know the second violation is $500.

We have the city inspector come in before everything is done so we have THEIR list of what they want to be done. We use Detroit Inspection Group. The inspectors are outside contractors. There are a few groups to choose from. Their website is easy to use and it's accessed via BSEED. Once we're done with their safety fixes, we have them come back out and let us know it's passed.

3. Lead Paint Test. There is a list on the BSEED website of lead paint inspectors. Email me and I'll connect you with our guy we like the best. Monique@greatdaypm.com

The inspector is looking for chipped paint. Just don't have chipping paint anywhere before he gets there. Good inspectors will let you know if there is chipped paint and they'll have you fix it so you don't get into other failed lead paint test issues. It's around $500. We pay $475.

The ticket for no lead paint test recorded with the city starts at $500 and I've seen a re-ticket over $1,000 on houses I've researched.

The lead paint test and the passed city inspection then have to get through the city's system before being issued a certificate of compliance. It takes a while. This isn't a step I've been all the way through. I leave it up to the property manager. We flip the house and make sure the lead test and the city test are passed, then we let the property manager acquire the piece of paper that stops the tickets from happening for NOT having those three steps done; registration, city inspection, lead inspection.

DIY Detroit Investors BEWARE: Squatters, Stolen Utilities, City Inspections -- OH MY!

Here is why Detroit investing is still the best financial investment in the USA. But don't do it yourself! You need an expert to buy an investment property from. An expert you can trust! Scams everywhere!

We buy houses in Detroit, remove the squatter, renovate the house, prepare it for the city certification, then sell it to a savvy investor, usually from out of the state or out of the country. The locals here won't buy in Detroit because of stories like these on the news. Out-of-state and out-of-country investors see the numbers and the numbers don't lie. They aren't emotionally charged about the messes still happening in Detroit. These messes help keep the house prices low so I'm not bothered by them as someone without experience would be.

I sent out letters to tired landlords all over Detroit. The response was quite good so I was able to buy a handful of the best ones. We did NOT buy this house. I negotiated with the seller, Nancy, for a few months. She insisted on $35,000. She got me up to $30,000, which would cut into our profit too much so we were glad we didn't get the house.

We did acquire other houses that have involved squatter removal. It's a LENGTHY process.

1. Offer cash for keys. No one right now will take it because they either want too much money (more than holding costs and legal fees) or they know they get 3 more months of free lodging or they don't care about having an eviction on their record because they already have one.

2. Send a 30-day notice. They have 30 days to leave.

3. File. It takes about 10 days to get a court date which is another 20 or so days out.

4. That first court date gets automatically adjourned so the poor squatter can ensure free legal help. No free legal help for the landlords who are giving up their properties as homeless shelters these days.

5. Court date. The tenant has another 10 days to leave. If the landlord wants money for the freebie months, it can take longer because the court gets the free lawyer to apply to the State for the rental assistance. I believe that is over June 30, 2022 though.

6. If they don't move out, we can get a bailiff. I'm not sure how long it takes to get the bailiff these days because I haven't had to go this far yet, thank goodness, since 2020 when things shut down. But I've heard the bailiffs are only doing around 3 evictions a week instead of 3/day. That's how hard it is to get to this step.

We only sell a few investment houses a month and we're starting to sell houses retail on the MLS for more money. If you'd like to invest in Detroit, don't dilly-dally! Cash buyers get top priority. We sell a typical 3-bedroom renting for $1,000/month for $72,000 right now. Email me to set up a call to get on my list. I have houses we haven't even started to renovate yet already committed to buyers.

Exclusive Buyer List: www.GreatDayPropertyManagement.com/exclusive-buyer-list We only sell a couple of houses a month. This is step 1 to join our waiting list.

The Dirty Truth About Detroit Property Taxes

This is my story of taking on a corrupt mayor’s henchmen, how a racist helped my cause, winning and losing and winning, and how our new mayor has turned the city around. 

My first Lose — My Own Ignorance

The House on Lakepointe we bought in 2009 for $10,000.

My husband and I were new to investing in Detroit. We only had a few houses so far in 2009 and we were high on success. We bought them starting in 2007 as the city was on its way to bankruptcy. We renovated them, rented them out, and we were making great money. When we bought our next house in 2009 for $10,000 on Lakepointe Street, we didn’t notice how inflated the taxes were. Then once we bought it and it was uncapped, the taxes went up even more and were close to $5,000 a year. 

WHAT??

My Second Lose — Me Against the Mayor’s Henchmen

Former Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick, photo from the Detroit News.

Have you ever heard of Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick? He’s now in jail and he’s the star of his own episode on American Greed. I didn’t know he was such a criminal then and it seemed everyone in the city was part of his criminal activity. So I went ahead and argued my tax assessment before the Property Assessment Board of Review. I thought I came in well prepared with sales comparables. But when it was their assessor’s turn to talk, I had no idea what she was saying. I asked clarifying questions to which she refused to answer and the whole board had a good chuckle at my expense. I lost my tax appeal. I left that meeting and acquired a real estate license.

My First Win — The Racist Helped Me

My husband, Patrick, and I in 2020, now older and wiser than when we bought the Lakepointe house.

I appealed the decision in Detroit and took it to the State level. The magistrate was a beautiful Persian looking woman. I barely made my case, strictly based on comparable values in the area, when the representative for Detroit interrupted me and said, “Girl, you don’t know ANYTHING about Detroit.” I took that to mean because I’m Caucasian. But she didn’t bother to find out that my husband/business partner grew up in Detroit and indeed knows Detroit neighborhoods and their values. 

The Detroit Defendant stated, “There’s nothing wrong with the Lakepointe neighborhood. I grew up in what’s called Little Beirut where I heard gunshots every day. Those ‘Aye-Rabs’ would burn down their own houses because they owned the insurance companies. They got rich doing that. Your house is a $60,000 house all day long. So your taxes are correct.”

The magistrate ruled in my favor.

My Third Lose Then Second Win — It’s Who You Know!

I took the legal decision from the State back to Detroit and asked for a new tax bill. DENIED. I asked for a supervisor. DENIED. 

Then I met a full-time tax appealer. He knew people. He took my whole portfolio for $750/property and he was able to get all my taxes reduced to half their current rate. Still too high on Lakepointe, but great for our other investments.

My Final Win — The New Mayor Who is Saving Detroit

Mayor Duggan: Instrumental to Detroit’s Turnaround, from the Detroit News.

The best new mayor, Mike Duggan, came into office in 2013. He had all the properties assessed more fairly and changed everyone’s property taxes. The taxes on Lakepointe are now $1,222.27. I could sell the Lakepointe house now for close to $50k.

Mayor Duggan has been improving Detroit top to bottom ever since. He brought in big tech companies (Google, Amazon, Microsoft, LinkedIn, Twitter, Pinterest). He improved city services. He helped homeowners keep their properties from tax foreclosures. His State of the City addresses are inspiring. And we’ve seen the prices of houses increase. Within the last year, the cost of houses in Detroit has increased by 7.7%. 

Detroit is a Come Back City! We still buy around two properties a month, renovate them, place a tenant, and now we sell them to investors worldwide. Our investors are earning a 12–14% ROI. 

And the best part, I doubt I will ever have to appear in front of a panel of criminal henchmen again!

Side Deals on Section 8 -- How to Get More Rent the Legal Way

There is a way to get extra money each month from voucher holders that is perfectly legal and not considered a “Side Deal.”

What is a Side Deal?

A side deal is an agreement between a landlord and a tenant wherein the tenant pays an additional amount of rent that is not in the agreement with the tenant’s Public Housing Agency (PHA). It is illegal!

How Much Rent Should a HCV Tenant Pay a Landlord Directly?

A Housing Choice Voucher (HCV) recipient is required to pay the landlord 30-40% of her income toward rent. 30% is the normal amount PHAs have their HCV recipients pay. There is some wriggle room for each PHA to have the tenant pay up to 40%, which seems to be decided case by case.

What is the Penalty for Side Deals?

I found this:

“Example
On July 29, 2005, a Connecticut tenant filed a qui tam complaint, under 31 U.S.C. 3730, against her former landlord. See Coleman v. Hernandez, 490 F. Supp.2d 278 (D. Conn. 2007). The tenant complained that pursuant to a HAP contract the landlord had agreed to accept $1,550 per month for the rental of an apartment in Stamford. Of this $1,550, the tenant was personally responsible for $20, and HUD via the HA paid the complementary $1,530. In spite of the explicit prohibition in the HAP contract, however, the landlord required the tenant to pay an “additional rent payment” of $60 on six separate occasions. In other words, the landlord inappropriately extracted an additional $360 from the helpless tenant.

OIG is aware of numerous similar examples of this sort of egregious conduct nationwide.
Penalty
Pursuant to the False Claims Act, 31 U.S.C. 3729 et seq., persons who submit to HUD or a HUD intermediary claims that are false, fictitious or fraudulent are liable for an assessment equal to three times the amount of the claim, plus a penalty of between $5,500 and $11,000 per claim. The United States may take the position that the entire amount of its HAP payment, not merely the amount of the excess payment by the tenant, is the claim that should be trebled where landlords make false certifications concerning excess rent charged. Additionally, each periodic rent payment constitutes a separate claim; thus, in the Coleman case the court levied a $33,000 (6 × $5,500) penalty against the landlord for her $360 victimization of the tenant.”

— https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2008/07/10/E8-15663/oig-fraud-alert-bulletin-on-charging-excess-rent-in-the-housing-choice-voucher-program

What Are Legal Ways to Get More Monthly Income?

We landlords are allowed to charge for other items that are not rent if it is stated in the lease or if it is in an addendum to the lease. PHAs ask for a sample lease before approving the contract with the landlord. These extra fees MUST BE IN THE LEASE OR AS AN ADDENDUM. Each PHA has its own discretion to deny or offer a negotiation to the amounts.

Here are examples:

• Pet fees

• Lawn care

• Snow removal

• Internet

• Parking spaces (apartments)

• Cable

• Laundry facility

• Use of sheds or outer buildings

Reasons Not to Charge Extra

I really appreciate that the Public Housing Agency has determined how much 30% of my tenant’s income is. 30% of income SHOULD go to housing and if any more than that goes to housing, it is a very “house poor” way to live. It gets more difficult to keep up on home maintenance issues. It could cause the person to be late on rent trying to make ends meet.

I also need to know where this ability to pay extra has come from. Is it a boyfriend who is not on the lease? He could move out! Is it a side job of doing hair? What if she stops doing hair for whatever reason? Her voucher amount is not going to change if that side gig wasn’t part of her declared income. What if this side money of hers is found out by her PHA? They have amazing search engines. Then what if she loses her voucher? Where does that leave me?

Another concern is how does this look in court if your tenant quit paying that $300/month dog fee? The judge is not there to enforce Section 8, just the lease. But from my experience, judges want nothing to do with extra fees. They only enforce what is written up as rent.

There is the concern too of testers. A group called Project Sentinel in Santa Clara, California, sent out a survey to voucher holders asking them who offered to do side deals and who is currently part of a side deal. The tenants had no punishment for answering the questions, but they sure did receive awards if they turned in landlords.

“According to Project Sentinel, a tenant may be awarded a refund of the total side payments made to owner. In addition, the tenant could be awarded $1,650 to $3,300 for each month they made a side payment to the owner, regardless of the amount of side payment. Refund payments can go back as far as six years.”

— Article Source: http://EzineArticles.com/8869676

Story Time

One of my first tenants who had been with us for at least a decade gradually had her children move out from her three-bedroom home that we rented to her for $800/month. Her voucher amount kept getting lower. It was down to around $600/month. This did not work for us! Our beloved tenant also became disabled. So I asked her adult children if they would please rent the garage from us so we could afford to keep their mother in her home.

What I needed to do was ask the tenant to pay a fee to use the garage and put it in her lease and submit it to her caseworker. But I did not know that at the time. Instead I told her children, who were concerned their mother would have to move, that as long as they paid me $200 to use the garage, per a garage lease I drew up, that we could keep her at the house. The children would never sign the lease though. It was a lot of back and forth.

It only worked for a couple months that we received our full $800/month. Then the adult children started fighting with each other. Then they conveniently forgot they agreed to pay for the garage. We ended up in court in front of a judge. The son accused us of making a side deal. Fortunately, I had a lawyer and the judge did not care about that. She only cared about the missing rent. At this point the tenant was even behind on her portion of the $600/month. So my judgment wasn’t for nearly how much it needed to be. It was irrelevant anyway because at this point my tenant was disabled and uncollectible. It was just sad because we watched her children grow up in that house. We provided her and her children really nice housing for a decade. Then we had to have a bailiff remove her things. And it turns out the garage was packed the worst!

Conclusion

I have asked many directors of PHAs if they have ever sent anyone to jail for side deals or charged anyone with fraud. The answer was always a reluctant no. I was told they prefer to work with their few and far between landlords who will rent to HCV recipients. If they do find a landlord doing something wrong, they are more likely to have that landlord correct it financially. They will also quit working with some landlords.

I think most of us just want what is just. I need a fair amount of rent. The people who were awarded a voucher just need safe and reasonable housing. The PHA caseworkers just need to get their job done. I prefer to stay positive and hopeful about everyone’s intentions and choices.

• Most likely the landlord will have to pay restitution although it is a criminal offense.

• https://howtogeton.wordpress.com/legal-ways-to-pay-more-rent-on-section-8-housing-vouchers/

• Some leases bundle in services that Housing Authorities do not consider rental expenses. For example:

  • Pet fees

  • Lawn care & snow removal

  • Internet

  • Parking spaces

  • Cable

  • Laundry facilities or washer/dryer in apartment

  • Use of sheds or outbuildings

  • Snow removal

  Some of our readers were able to speak with their landlords and request to remove these fees from their rent. The fees were not included in the “rent,” but instead noted in the lease as a separate fee, or attached to the lease in an addendum.

  Important: Before going forward with an arrangement like this, make sure the lease language and any addendums gets approved by your housing worker. Side deals with landlords are not allowed, any financial arrangements with landlords must be approved by the housing authority.

“Example
On July 29, 2005, a Connecticut tenant filed a qui tam complaint, under 31 U.S.C. 3730, against her former landlord. See Coleman v. Hernandez, 490 F. Supp.2d 278 (D. Conn. 2007). The tenant complained that pursuant to a HAP contract the landlord had agreed to accept $1,550 per month for the rental of an apartment in Stamford. Of this $1,550, the tenant was personally responsible for $20, and HUD via the HA paid the complementary $1,530. In spite of the explicit prohibition in the HAP contract, however, the landlord required the tenant to pay an “additional rent payment” of $60 on six separate occasions. In other words, the landlord inappropriately extracted an additional $360 from the helpless tenant.

OIG is aware of numerous similar examples of this sort of egregious conduct nationwide.
Penalty
Pursuant to the False Claims Act, 31 U.S.C. 3729 et seq., persons who submit to HUD or a HUD intermediary claims that are false, fictitious or fraudulent are liable for an assessment equal to three times the amount of the claim, plus a penalty of between $5,500 and $11,000 per claim. The United States may take the position that the entire amount of its HAP payment, not merely the amount of the excess payment by the tenant, is the claim that should be trebled where landlords make false certifications concerning excess rent charged. Additionally, each periodic rent payment constitutes a separate claim; thus, in the Coleman case the court levied a $33,000 (6 × $5,500) penalty against the landlord for her $360 victimization of the tenant.”

How to Find a Section 8 Tenant to Rent Your Property

The myth of Finding Section 8 Tenants

People assume there is some kind of Section 8 qualification a landlord must do. It doesn’t work that way. Landlords simply prepare their house for a tenant. If you are not a slumlord, your house should be up to city code. If it is, you are probably able to pass a Section 8 inspection as well.

Once your house is up to city code, then you list the house for rent. If someone who has a Housing Choice Voucher (Section 8) comes to you, that applicant will have a move packet. Before you take her move packet, you will definitely want to do the background check and home visit, as you would with any other tenant. If you find she qualifies, you can fill out her move packet and send it in to her caseworker at her Section 8 office (otherwise known as her Public Housing Authority or Housing Commission). The move packet is a set of forms the PHA needs to prove you are the real owner of the house and to know how much the rent is and if you are paying utilities or not. Once the Section 8 office determines your paperwork meets their qualifications, which can be up to 14 days, Section 8 will email you or call you to schedule an inspection. Once the house passes the inspection, then the tenant can move in and rent payments begin.

Check out my video and blog on the Pros and Cons of Renting to Someone with Section 8.

Also be sure to see my video and blog on how I do the initial phone screening.

Do you really want a Section 8 tenant?

I used to list my houses for rent to “Section 8 Only” applicants. This caused a lot of anger with applicants. And I learned along the way that having Section 8 isn’t always all that. What matters the most is the background check. I have a very extensive background check system I use. I’m eventually putting together a class on it that any landlord can do from any city. So for now send me an email and I’ll add you to a list once I know when I will be offering that class. Monique@GreatDayPM.com

How I write my ads to attract a Section 8 voucher holder

I will state in the first line that we pass inspections. Or I will use the wording, “Section 8 OK” or “Section 8 Welcome.” This is enough.

Here are my top places I post my properties:

Zillow-Trulia-HotPads

I post my properties on Zillow and they feed out to Trulia and Hot Pads. I get the majority of my leads from Zillow.

Facebook Marketplace

I post my properties here as well. When people reply that they are interested, I always respond with a video of the property and I ask them to text me if they want an application.

Housing Commissions or PHAs or Section 8 Offices

Over the many years of providing quality housing to voucher holders, I’ve accumulated email addresses of different Section 8 caseworkers. In order to find the housing commissions (known as Public Housing Agencies or Section 8 offices) in your area, you can try calling HUD’s Public Housing Resource Center at 1-800-955-2232. Ask them for email addresses. You should first email the housing commission and ask if they accept listings and if they have a preferred form.

The problem with the local Section 8 offices accepting your posts is that applicants will sometimes call MONTHS after the house has been rented because there is no way for the housing commissions to remove the ads once the house has been rented unless a landlord lets them know. This works for me though because I just tell the person about another house I do have and I tell them not to be discouraged because they just need to ask the landlords they call what other properties they may have.

GoSection8.com

This is a site I do have to pay for ($39/month paid yearly). Second only to Zillow, I get most of my leads from this site.

Rentlinx.com

Another site that I used to use is Rentlinx.com. They link to several sites that have rentals. They are too pricey for me at $55/month and they don’t list on GoSection8.com.

Craigslist

This used to be the only place I listed my properties. It was great. I’ve used it a little bit since then but I get far more response from Zillow. Scammers will take my listings from Zillow and then place them for cheaper rent on Craiglist. They will meet the tenant at the house and say they can’t get them in right now. Or they will ask the tenant to submit a deposit. Then the person naturally goes missing. It’s really sad when the applicant finds me and lets me know this happened.

Nextdoor

This looks like a new feature. I can’t tell if I can do this living outside of Detroit. I tried it and it did not work. I may need to have a separate Detroit account. But if your rental is in your same area in which you live, this could be a nice option.

How to Screen a Section 8 Tenant -- The Background Check

Disclaimer: This blog does NOT go into the entire screening process. I only describe the differences when screening a Section 8 Housing Choice Voucher holder.

Income Verification

This is my favorite difference. When a tenant applies to get a Housing Choice Voucher, she is required to submit boatloads of paperwork and income verification. For details please see my blog about How to Get Section 8.

I always refer to tenants as she because in Detroit, for my clientele, I rarely have men apply.

I know if someone has a Housing Choice Voucher that her portion of rent is equivalent to 30% of her income. This is incredibly helpful to me to not go through the bother of collecting every shred of evidence and then verifying its validity. I still gather evidence though but mostly because, when I do tenant screening, I am always thinking of what a skip tracer may need to find and garnish the tenant should the tenant leave without paying full rent. Proof of a job is very helpful. If she only has disability or social security, then I know she is a higher risk tenant. We cannot garnish a person’s disability or social security income.

Another good thing about knowing the tenant has 30% of the rent herself to pay is that I know she actually can afford that 30%. If she lets me know she could not pay it, I know to question what choices she has made not to pay it. The most common excuse I hear is funeral expenses. “The flowers were so expensive.” Regardless of how cold I seem, that is a choice. I will start the eviction process. Something was valued above housing. It is for her to figure out how to catch the past rental payment up before her court date. And with Section 8 I am required to turn in my notice of eviction and then eventual judgment. People with Section 8 seem to me to be more careful not to make these choices.

If the tenant’s income should change due to a loss of a job or having a baby and needing time off from work, she may no longer have 30% to pay me. Section 8 will pay the whole rent at that time. That is a wonderful reassurance!

See my blog and video about the Pros and Cons of Section 8.

Felonies

HUD has rules about which felons are not allowed to have a voucher. Look into Chapter 5 in the HUD book for details. http://bit.ly/HUDChapter5. But each PHA, who distributes the vouchers, have their own set of rules of which felons they will accept and which ones they will not.

Then I have my own rules of which felons I will accept and which ones I will not. My rules seem to coincide with the PHA rules from what I have been able to tell so far once I’ve done my digging into people’s felonies. My own rule is more open to finding out the whole story. I’ve denied a non Section 8 applicant pedophile rapist despite the fact that he seemed happily married with a small child and had an excellent job. I had the right to deny him. He was not a protected class. His girlfriend confirmed he had just gotten out of jail for five years. She also confirmed it was no Romeo & Juliet case of young consensual love either. She assured me though that he just had a bad attorney and it wasn’t even true so I asked her to show me the court records or proof he had presented to his attorney, but she did not comply. But I have accepted people with marijuana offenses from the days it was totally illegal to even possess marijuana. I have accepted a car jacker who had done his time 25 years ago and had lived a clean life since. He is one of my few male tenants and he is doing well. None of these examples had Section 8. The felons I have seen with Section 8 were usually drunk drivers. I do not see very many felons who have a Housing Choice Voucher.

What you need to be aware of though is that someone while on the voucher can commit a felony and their PHA may never know. Their records are only run randomly once they have been granted a Housing Choice Voucher. I wonder if they ever run them, knowing how short staffed they all seem to be. In my video I talk about Ferlita the Felon. I believe she must have lost her voucher when she did 5 years in jail. I found her record as I was editing my video. At the time she applied for my house, though, she still had a voucher and had not yet had her court case apparently or her sentencing. She wanted my house, she said, “even though that closet isn’t big enough for all my shoes.” I kindly lost touch with her.

Disclaimer: I’m not sure this is the one who came to view my house, but this person’s record is for identity theft and her name is Ferlita. Go to Google Images and look up mug shots for your applicants. You may be surprised!

What HUD will not allow are people with drug related felonies. People who had an eviction for anything drug related also were denied Housing Choice Vouchers. But the eviction rule is only if they were evicted for something drug related within the last 3 years.

From HUD’s Chapter Five. The following seems promising but each person on Section 8 that is denied the voucher has the right to appeal. I have heard it is harder to remove someone from Section 8 because these appeals often favor the voucher holders.

“In determining whether to deny assistance based on drug-related cirminal activity or violent crimial activity, the PHA may deny assistance if the preponderance of evidence indicates that a family member has engaged in such activity, regardless of whether the family member has been arrested or convicted.”

What landlord evicts tenants for drug related activity? NOT ME! I prefer not to mess with drug dealers. I will evict them on anything BUT drug dealing. I have had a couple drug dealers as tenants. They were always the boyfriend, not my tenant, who never seemed to stay very long. When he was there, though, the rent was always paid! We did find one of our front doors replaced after one of the boyfriends ended up in jail and paying the rent got harder for the girlfriend who was our tenant. The neighbors later told us about the drug raid. Maybe the neighbors reported him to the police? We just didn’t know and I’m grateful we didn’t because I am not armed to take on drug dealers.

My question is if HUD denies people with drug related evictions, I’m curious how often they even come across such people. So I ALWAYS DO MY OWN CHECK FOR FELONIES! And I do all the rest of the background checking as well, such as doing a home visit.

Evictions

A very common mistake that landlords make is assuming if someone has a Section 8 voucher and she has had an eviction that she will lose her voucher. THAT IS NOT TRUE! For one, evictions do not disqualify tenants from being awarded a voucher in the first place. It only makes sense. They need the voucher because they couldn’t afford to live.

With my new-to-Section-8 applicants, I dig deep into their evictions. I look them up on www.36thDistrictCourt.org. I read through every line. Then I call the applicant and ask her what happened there. It’s often a case of a slumlord. But if she would’t pay the rent because he was a slumlord, she needed to have put the rent into escrow until a judge made the determination. Gathering the applicant’s story before I call the landlord is always helpful. I will ask the landlord too what the case was all about. I get both sides of the story and decide for myself where the truth may lie.

I do NOT accept applicants who took the eviction so far that the landlord had to hire a bailiff to haul them out of his or her property. No matter what financial situation someone is in, that to me is evil. I will ask the tenants in the initial phone screening if they had a bailiff remove them. There is never a sufficient answer in my mind. Getting to the point of the bailiff is so costly for a landlord. Not to mention, now that tenant has the knowledge of how to stay in a property without paying rent for the longest period of time. They can take their education elsewhere! I definitely never even show them the house.

For my applicants who have used their voucher already at other properties, I STILL look up their record for evictions. It’s really frustrating to me that there isn’t a better way for the PHAs (Public Housing Agencies/Section 8 offices) to know which of their voucher recipients have been evicted. We landlords have the onus of turning in our notices and judgments to the PHAs so they know and can deny someone a voucher. But I was told by one PHA in Detroit, the biggest one, Detroit Housing Commission (DHC), that DHC simply puts the eviction paperwork in a file. They do not have the manpower to move people off the program. Other PHAs take it very seriously. But they still have to go through a whole appeal process with the tenant who will plea her case. And guess who doesn’t get to appear at the appeal? The landlord!

I’ve also read in that Chapter 5 that the voucher holders are also supposed to turn in any notices of eviction or judgments as well. I wonder if that has EVER happened?

So I ALWAYS check for myself if the person has been taken to court for anything that would lead me to believe she would not be good to do business with. I tell applicants on the phone before I even show them a house that I not only care about evictions but I care too about how many times they were even taken to court. I find it egregious that a landlord had to take them to court to get them to pay.

If you don’t have Detroit applicants and that wonderful case lookup feature on www.36thDistrictCourt.org, just see if your city does have a similar website. If not, it is public record if someone has been taken to court. Find out which court handles landlord tenant issues and call them with the applicant’s name. The court should be able to tell you what the cases were, who the plaintiffs were, how it was ruled, and the address of the tenant at the time. And NEVER trust your background check software. Not all courts report evictions. And they certainly don’t report all the other nonpayment cases that were adjourned — which likely means the tenant or the landlord was a no-show. But the landlord STILL got so far as to having needed to pay to have it filed to get the tenant to catch up or leave. You need to know this!

The Best Most Surprising Tip

If an applicant already has used her voucher renting from someone else, the PHA is REQUIRED BY HUD to share with the potential new landlord the contact information for the current and past landlord.

Good luck getting the PHA to answer the phone! To bypass this issue, on your rental application, always get the name and email address of that applicant’s Section 8 caseworker. Email the caseworker and get the information.

Other than simply the contact information, it is up to the PHA if they will share with you even more information. This is what HUD’s Chapter 5 states about this

“The PHA is required to provide the owner with:

The family’s current and prior address (as shown in the PHA records); and

The name and address (if known) of the landlord at the family’s current and prior addresses.

This information is intended to assist the owner in conducting his or her own screening.

The PHA may choose to provide a prospective owner with additional information it possesses about the family, including information about the tenancy history of family members or about drug-trafficking by family members. If the PHA chooses to provide such information, it should describe how the information was obtained, and encourage the owner to confirm such information.

When developing such a policy, the PHA should consider a whether all information contained in the tenant file should be provided, or if the PHA should provide only information that has been independently confirmed.. The policy must provide that the PHA will give comparable information about all families to all owners.”

By all means, take HUD up on this tool!

The Home Visit

In my next video and blog, I will discuss my very best of the best tools I use to make sure a tenant will not destroy my own property. I pay them a visit where they are living now. I will share with you how I go about this, because I know it seems very AWKWARD! But SO WHAT! It needs to be done. This is a very large business transaction. We landlords need to use every tool in our arsenal to help ourselves not end up in an eviction situation.

If you haven’t subscribed to my YouTube channel, please do! You will be alerted when the next video airs.

Please let me know what other subjects you would like me to cover. I’m feeling my next playlist needs to be the entire background check. Yes or no?